Forging with Chelsea Lantto

Nikki speaks with Chelsea Lantto, president of Trenton Forging Company, a forging company that delivers high-quality forged steel components.

Although not new to forging, as a second-generation leader of the company, Chelsea shares the history of Trenton Forging and how it's become a family operated business. The company strives to complete their long-term plan of gradual automation to replace outdated technology while also prioritizing the well-being of their workforce.
 
They talk about the company's growth, the decision to invest in automation, competition in the market, and the need to always look to the future to continue innovating in the centuries old craft of metal forging. 

Transcript

[00:00:00] All right. Well, welcome to Automation Ladies. This is a recording that we're doing here the week before Thanksgiving. You're probably hearing this sometime after Thanksgiving. But, as usual, we have some sort of technical difficulties. Courtney was trying to join us, but her Wi Fi is crap today. So I think this is going to be a conversation between myself and our guest for today, Chelsea Lonto.

Welcome, Chelsea. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So somebody reached out from the forging association, or something similar a few months ago. And I was like, well, I don't really know anything about forging or have anything to do with forging. But when they mentioned that Chelsea is the president of a forging company and has implemented automation at her company.

Then my light bulb went off and I thought, Hey, I really have to talk to Chelsea and hear her story because we haven't done these yet. I've wanted to, there's a couple of women that run companies that have done some automation that I've invited onto the show and. They haven't been quite ready yet.[00:01:00]

Chelsea, you must be a pro at this to be willing to just show up and have a conversation with me. So I really appreciate you coming on. A pro I am not. The reality is it took literally a village to get us to where we are, but that's what happens, right? It can't be one person and you can't automate with one person because that is a surefire way to fail.

Absolutely. And it won't be perfect the first time around. Yeah. I think you have to be ready to iterate your process, right? You have to start somewhere, get better. And iterate and scale over time. Yeah, I mean, it's a constant learning cycle and 1 thing that we are sure of at about 1 year in at this point is that.

You know, we are always trying to continuously improve the process. We're always looking at making upgrades, whether they're small or large in scale. And it's something that we are committed to doing, because that's just the way that. Things happen, right? Either because technology evolves or because we're getting better and more efficient and how we're applying that technology.

Absolutely. Well, we're trying to do that [00:02:00] with the show. I'm not getting better as fast as I would like. If this was my only job, I am confident to say that I probably mastered it or would be getting better faster. But that's okay. We're doing, you know, we're learning along the way. And we doing this because we have some sort of crazy passion for it, right?

You wouldn't be leading a company or starting and maintaining and doing a podcast or any of these things that we do if there wasn't some sort of drive. Behind it, so I will dive in and ask our 1st question, which is, can you tell us your story, as to how you became the president of Trenton forging company and embarked upon automating?

Yeah, absolutely. So, Trenton forging company is a 3rd generation operated 2nd generation owned. So my brother and I are actually the 3rd generation. Our grandfather started the company in 1967 and my dad took over operations in the 80s. And then obviously is the [00:03:00] current owner with my mother and we really started as a very small shop, literally in the middle of a cornfield.

Um, it was 1 building. It was 2 air. You know, lift gravity drop hammers, a couple furnaces and some support equipment and over the, you know, 56 odd years, 57 odd years. If my math is right. My dad has grown it into what it is today. And obviously we've been through. Many different eras and phases throughout the life cycle of the company.

But the 1 thing that my dad has done a really good job of over his entire 10 year is making sure that he's constantly reinvesting. In both the people here, but also the equipment and the facilities, and that kind of is what led us into automation. I went down a totally different track in terms of education and experience.

So growing up, my dad and I would always talk about the company and my brother was always involved and, you know, I worked here on and [00:04:00] off until. Oh, God, all the way through grad school, I think, but I ended up getting a master's in public health and doing my own thing and, taking that as far as I possibly could.

And then 1 day, I realized that every time that I met with my dad for lunch or for holidays, we were always talking about the company and I'm still doing some consulting work on the side for him and some leadership training and change management stuff. And finally, I was like, what am I? Doing. I'm really frustrated in the public health realm.

 I was working in the government sector of that and the speed is not a match for my personality. The work that you do in public health, it could take a decade before you actually see the results of what you're doing. Whereas in manufacturing, as you know, you can walk out there and pick up the thing that you made that day and it's shipping to a customer.

Um, So, I sort of had this reality check of, you know, why wouldn't I want to work with my family every day? It's an amazing company with so much to offer all of our team [00:05:00] members. And it's just such a better fit for my personality. And, the things that I look for in a career, because you spend so many hours at work every week.

So I made that call. I said, you know, is there still a spot for me? Would you allow me to come back? And thankfully he did so long story short. I came back in as business operations manager, moved into the director of manufacturing, and then my brother and I took over as president and vice president. 2 years ago, 2 and a half years ago, time flies, especially a little bit.

Right. I had lost all track of time, but yeah, so we've been running day to day operations for a couple of years together. And about a year ago, we started production on our newly automated. Press forging, so so we've had some smaller automation implementations in different departments, but this was a brand new building, brand new equipment, completely automated, you know, hands off.

[00:06:00] So, the only human touch to it is some material handling on the outside. Okay, so you guys built an entirely new production capability that's automated. Yes, I would love to hear. So you said you automated a few smaller things in the past. I'm assuming on your existing processes, right? Were you involved in those at all?

Or was this. Particular project, the only automation project that you personally were involved with. This is the 1 that I was more involved in from the beginning. And I just to be very clear. I am not the point person on this. I am not the brains behind it. That was my brother. I mean, he literally designed every aspect of it.

He oversaw the project from conception through implementation to completion. And he is still the 1 who is really the brains behind the entire operation. Okay, so do, you know, just from a company or sort of culture perspective. Did the smaller automation projects that you did in the past, like, did you have [00:07:00] any that were complete failures or left a really bad taste in your mouth?

Or were they all, you know, did they all achieve that goal that you were looking to set out with? Oh, no, no, no. 1 in particular, we had very small, we called them transfer tables. So they would pick up a part from the end of a conveyor and then they would literally rotate about 90 degrees and then drop to a secondary conveyor.

And it was really just a space constraint in between each of our hammer cells in the existing operation. So we're trying to get creative with how to do that without manual input just to keep head count down. Those things were a nightmare. We had so much downtime because everything was, you know, hydraulic actuators and sensors, and it's a dirty environment, right?

Just because of the way that forging is their scale everywhere. So, you know, a lens would get dirty, or a sensor would get dirty, or something would get clogged. The hydraulics of it were just an absolute nightmare because somebody would try and play with. The speed or the reach [00:08:00] that we were trying to achieve, and then everything would all go to hell.

So they were a maintenance nightmare. And more often than not, we would just end up putting a person there to literally move apart from point A to point B. And I'm talking maybe 2 feet. So it's painful to watch this thing just sit there and then have a human do the job that this. You know, very crude robot was supposed to be doing so that was the big 1.

I wouldn't say that it left a bad taste. In the context of moving into this new technology, just because this was, we knew it was going to be the latest technology, you know, the highest tack, it was going to be extremely well thought out and not like this transfer table was. But I think, there's always some apprehension when you're talking about replacing a human element.

Not that we laid anybody off with the new automated line, but just that there wasn't going to be that manual input. Yeah, and I've been in industrial automation for a while [00:09:00] and I started out in machine vision. Where oftentimes we were looking at possibly replacing a human quality control inspector or somebody that was tasked with watching the line.

Not because that was really supposed to be their job, but they started finding some sort of quality defect and then like, okay, how can we make sure this doesn't go out? And then they're like, you stand there and look at it. And then at some point, you know, you get to the point where they're like, that's not working anymore.

Either. We're having defects go by this person or, you know, nobody wants to stay in that job. Like, bunch of different reasons. Oftentimes. Also, just the ability to collect data course, correct quicker. If you start to see drift before you get to a full failure, right? When you have a person, you can't really do that, right?

They can kind of tell you yes or no, this product is good or something looks off. But it's interesting. I've been in places where the reaction to something like that was, Oh no, we don't want to do that because that will take away the jobs of these people that stand there and watch it all day. And then in other cases, it [00:10:00] was like, wow, we really need this person doing something more valuable than standing there all day, looking at these parts go by and probably getting fatigued and missing some at the end of a long shift or, you know, but it's really, I always try to think of like, There's nuance behind these attitudes.

Sometimes it's experience. Sometimes it's word of mouth. Sometimes it's a limited, I guess, view of what your company does and what it could do, or how, if you don't have a way to upskill or reskill or just move people into another position. Then it really is that question of, okay, we're placing this person with this machine.

I've always thought that to be a bit, I don't know, short sighted because unless you're a business that really has no growth opportunity and you have no open roles and you, you know, then maybe letting people go is the right choice. Um, I have never understood that, though, like, how I'm sure most companies, if they're growing, or if they, even if they're not growing, but they are just trying to be more efficient, you know, if you have a quality person that works for you, you want to keep them there.

Even if you [00:11:00] get them to do something else, how do you guys, I guess what your attitude as a company towards these types of things? Clearly, from what you've said earlier, it seems like you value the people that work for you, but do you guys have any kind of, you know, trouble attracting talent worker shortage?

I hear that a lot. Or how do you think about that in the business between jobs and doing more with automation? It's a balance, right? And the driver initially behind. Moving towards full automation is because of the manpower issues that we are facing and it's not the current team. Obviously, it's the economic drivers and it's the reality of, you know, we're really.

Retail fast food bloggers and, Instagram influencers, you know, the air conditioned warehouses. Right? And the reality of forging is that it is hot, loud and dirty. I mean, we are a very clean forging operation, but you compare [00:12:00] us to an attempt controlled environment and it's a no brainer. Right?

Especially when wages are doing what they're doing right now. So we're competing against. Completely different industries, right? So, when we were looking at our existing operation, which is very labor intensive. I mean, our 5 hammer lines that really are the foundation of the company. Our technology out of the fifties.

Yeah. You know, so it's, it does the job, right? But it's not the sexiest thing in the world. I mean, we think so, but the general population doesn't want to work in that environment. Right? So we're looking at that and we're looking 2 decades down the line of how do we ensure that the company is going to be here for the next generation?

And the 1 after that, because everything we do is based around the fact that. We're employing X number of families, not just team members, but, you know, our men and women are making the living to support and provide for their family members at home. Right? So it's this holistic view of what we do. So, right from the [00:13:00] beginning, we were very transparent about this is why we're investing in this.

So, it's the manpower issue, but it's also to compete with. The overseas competition, mostly for high volume work. So we do a lot of drop shop work, but we also do high volume stuff too. So that's where automation is really the better fit in terms of. You know, parts per hour, but it was the manpower. It was the competition piece and then it was.

A communication decision, right from the beginning of we were extremely transparent about everything. So, you know, the 1st meeting that we held was company wide of this is our plan. This is the rough investment. This is why we're doing it. And we are not going to lay anybody off or replace anybody with robotics.

And we have been true to that promise, and we will remain true to that promise because that's not the intent, right? We're adding capacity. We're increasing our capability. Um, and eventually the hope [00:14:00] is that we add a 2nd. Identical automated cell in that same building. Okay, and then the plan would be to start to replace the 5 hammer lines.

With newer updated technology that could still fit the niche market that we are in, in terms of job shop work, but not really have the limitations of the high volume type of. Automation right so, in order to do that. We're basically looking at that long term, just natural loss of people from our head count through retirements.

They move to different industries, different companies, that type of thing. We're never going to lay somebody off or term a position and replace them with a robot because we cannot do what we do without our team members. I mean, we move people between departments all the time, whether because. You know, they want to do something new.

They learned a new skill that they can better use. We brought on a new customer with a really big long term project [00:15:00] that we need to restructure to be able to support all of those things are on the table. Right? But our core function is because of our team members, so we have to be loyal to them to make sure that their needs are taken care of.

And then they're going to reciprocate that to the company. Yeah, that's really how you build a business to last. You think about 10, 20 years in the future. You don't just think about the balance sheet for the next quarter. Right and I love how you said that you are really not just employing those team members, but you're providing those jobs provide for those families, right?

So many companies, and maybe this is a function of size, but I think also it can be a function of the management attitude. Are those. You know, people in your care, or are those people that just come in to exchange their labor for money on an hourly basis? That's a transactional relationship, and I see that way too often, I think.

Especially in these lower wage, you know, or lower skill, quote unquote, right? Jobs. Which I think also [00:16:00] we have a fallacy to think that. Low skilled jobs or work are really low skill and it's like, well, then if you want to categorize this as low skill, you're going to probably have a lot of turnover because once somebody gets good at it, they're putting, you know, they've learned something.

They're putting their skills to use if you're not helping them continue to learn. And if they're driven, they're going to go somewhere else. Or if you're keeping them stagnant and they're okay with that, then they're not going to be a top performer, right? How do you build a culture in a company that actually wants to?

Build something in the long term. And I think you guys from what I can tell, obviously, in our short conversation have got that right. And I talked to a lot of people and I am going to be on the, uh, there's a friend of mine, Jim Meyer. He runs a podcast called the manufacturing culture podcast. I would highly suggest that he get you on, or somebody from your company to talk about that.

If you're open to it, he started that podcast because of. Hearing way too [00:17:00] many stories or companies coming to him for help when really culture is their problem because they're not thinking about their employees like they're part of the ship. You know, I like this analogy of a ship, right? When everybody's rowing and they know the destination, they know why we're going there.

Right. It's okay to work really, really hard when those waves come along, but if you just, you know, nobody knows where things are going. Everything is nothing is transparent. Right. Then why would they, you know, kind of go along, try to keep your business afloat. And at the same time.

Yeah. How can you. Be a good environment where people want to come work because the other you're absolutely right. You're competing with not just other companies in your industry, but every other industry. And that's part of why we're trying to do this with automation. Ladies is, just show some people that may be adjacent to what we do.

That automation and controls is a really interesting, fun. You know, yes, challenging, but, it's a really great place to be in manufacturing to those that don't know it. They don't know that satisfaction of being able to take the part. [00:18:00] And see, we just made this right or, there's, I think, a huge hidden world of what we do that most people don't know about.

And we don't do a great job communicating that and then we don't, you know, the stories that do come out. Are more often negative and positive, I think, and that doesn't help us. No, and, you know, the reality is that manufacturing especially has this reputation for a stereotypical command and control type of leadership environment.

Yeah. And I know that that's not the case in the vast majority of forging companies and suppliers to the forging industry, because we're, you know, we're all very active in the forging industry association. We obviously talk, we share stories and ideas and. Manufacturing is so much more evolved than people give it credit for it.

Right? So it's not just the technology and the cool stuff that we do and all of the really important components that we make. And I have to just put a plug in there for the forging industry because we are small, but we are mighty [00:19:00] because if it rolls floats or flies. It contains forging, so forging literally makes the world go around and people just don't realize how important forging are to the global economy and literally the everyday life that people are living.

But my point is that, you know, our approach to culture is really not a transactional model, but a transformational model. So, when we talk about, the 2024 strategic plan that we're currently working on everything that we do is based in what we call the 3 seats. So it's communication, collaboration and commitment.

So we are extremely transparent with our team members about the health of the company, the sales outlook, new products that we're making, because they need to be able to say, this is what is in it for me. And this is why I'm going to give the company, you know, my time, my talent, my dedication and my effort to make sure that the company is successful.

Because [00:20:00] I know that that means that I will be successful and if you can't tie all of those things together, you're not really paying attention to culture. Right? I mean, my team members out there talking about, you know, quote, unquote, low skills, I've got hammer men who, if you watch them, you can very clearly see that it is a delicate balance between art and science for them to manually manipulate 2200 degree steel bars in a set of die is in a very dynamic, challenging environment.

To create the parts that they did, most of which are safety critical. They're going into every industry. You could think of from, sporting goods, like golf clubs to military components to keep our armed forces safe, you know, everything in between automotive, railroad, mining, forestry, agriculture, et cetera.

So what they do. And what people consider low skilled, just it's a little upsetting, to be honest, because I can't do what they do. And they're the heart of this [00:21:00] company. Right? So, when we talk about automating, we're really talking about making their lives easier because they are the main contributors to.

The industry itself, right? And obviously we have to evolve and we have to remain competitive and all of those things, but we also have to make sure that they are safe and comfortable and productive and enjoy what they're doing every single day. So, automation is just a small piece of. That whole puzzle.

Absolutely. , so you came in, obviously, you've been in touch with the business kind of your whole life. Uh, like you mentioned with your dad, did you find that, you know, coming into it in a full time role? Was there anything that you really had to kind of say, hey, there is, you know.

Something has changed, right? Times, whatever we need to make some, changes or where you're do you feel like the culture has always been the way that it is? And it's always been as visible on the outside. Or have you done anything since you came in to kind of draw attention to your good culture or, in recruiting [00:22:00] or in marketing or anything like that?

So, when I came in, we didn't have a bad culture, right? But we didn't have a culture of that. My dad really had envisioned, and he recognized that, you know, time and, greater U. S. culture and expectations and generational differences. All of those things were going to play a role in company success moving forward.

So, he tasked, originally me when I came back was starting that work to make sure that we were headed in the right direction and steering the ship, like you said, to make sure that everybody was involved in that. But it very quickly became my brother and I, who were sort of spearheading this because ultimately, I mean, you know, we're going to be the captains.

Right? So we have to make sure that not only is the culture, the right. 1 for the company, but also that it gels with our leadership styles, right? Because the last thing you want to do is force this mismatch between leadership styles and culture aspirations, because you're always going to feel that friction.

And it's just, it's always [00:23:00] going to be a battle. So, he and I are very deliberate in. You know, what decisions are we making? Is that in alignment with the culture that we are trying to continuously build and improve upon? And we are very adamant that culture is a continuous journey. It's not, Oh, we're finally at the destination and we don't have to work at it anymore because all of the variables that make up your culture, whether it's your existing head count, new hires that come in.

The generational differences again, that are always sort of evolving, you know, market forces, economic forces, all of these things are constantly in motion and it's so dynamic. So, if you're not constantly responding with how you operate and get things done. You're really not working on your culture, right?

And if that's the last thing on your priority list, because you think you've reached that finish line, you're going to end up back at the start. Like, you were from the very beginning, right? So it's this constant thing that we're always [00:24:00] trying to make sure that we're evolving with our own expectations and then finding those small improvements over time.

So, it's a constant conversation between the 2 of us, but then it's a constant conversation between the leadership team and ultimately the company as a whole. So we are. Always reinforcing expectations values. What is our mission and how are we going to get there? How are we going to achieve our vision and what role does culture play in all of those things?

Very cool. Do you find that, you're attracting diverse talent at all. Do you have any challenges there as you're hiring? And I'm just wondering, like, forging. That, you mentioned those workers, they have a very special skill set. Are there younger people coming into that? Yes. And no, it's interesting because some of our younger.

They're all men in the hammer shop. Some of the younger guys out. There are super into it. They're [00:25:00] super passionate. They're really eager. They want to move up so that they're not just running the trim press or the roller. They want to be on the hammer and, you know, the main part of that crew. So, it's really cool to see, but it is very hard to find those people, right?

Because you have to. Do you have to be excited about that type of work and that type of environment? It's physical. It's loud. It's hot. You know, you can't be afraid of working with hot metal because that's literally what you're doing every day. So, it's a fine balance between, you know, personality.

You know, do you find this exciting, or is this just sort of a stepping stone? And what does that look like for you? Yeah, but it's interesting because often we will hire somebody into a different department and then they'll see what the forging departments are doing. And they're like, oh, can I transfer over there?

And that's fine with us, right? Like, if somebody finds that area, cool. Yeah, we'll train you up and, you know, give you everything you need to get that job done successfully. But it's interesting to [00:26:00]try and hire into support roles too, right? Because, I mean, forging is not something that people talk about.

Most people have no idea what we do. A lot of people think that we're either forging checks or foraging for mushrooms.

Trying to find an engineer with spam calls that you get trying to sell you stuff. That's so not relevant to you. Yes. Yeah. So, trying to find people with institutional knowledge and experience specific to forging is really difficult. So it's, you know, you're talking about a manpower shortage in general, but for us, it's really making sure that we're.

Capturing that institutional knowledge and experience and passing it to the younger generations who are already in the company so that we're not losing any of that information. Yeah, so that was actually going to be my next question is, how are you facilitating that knowledge transfer between your experienced workers and new people coming in?

Are you using any specific or [00:27:00] new technology for that? Or, yeah, can you explain that to me a little bit? So, a lot of it is mentorship and on the job training, because a lot of what we do, you can read about it, you can learn about it, but until you do the hands on portion of it, it's. Not really going to make a whole lot of sense.

So it's a lot of that, but also we are sort of manipulating our ERP system and creating what we're calling a knowledge base. Okay, so we can document either lessons learned or tips and tricks or historical decisions and why we made those decisions in this knowledge base. That's searchable by keyword.

Okay. Yeah. And obviously the, you know, you have to put good information in there to make sure that it's. Helpful for, you know, 3 years, 5 years down the road and that's a discipline thing. So we're working on building that database so that it's available to us and used in a way that's helpful. But honestly, the on the job learning the hands on training that's far more beneficial in the short term.

Right? [00:28:00] You just have to make sure that we're continuously shoring up that long term, you know, knowledge database. Absolutely. Yeah, because as those people retire, you won't be able to I mean, hopefully the next generation, then that's there has enough experience to then mentor the next person. But I know, at least in controls, they're really running short of those experienced people to mentor anybody.

And so a lot of integrators out there are running a lot of crews that. You know, don't necessarily have somebody super experienced available. And now a lot of what we're looking at is how can we effectively disseminate the knowledge from the experienced people that may be at this point don't want to be on the road traveling with those who's doing setups or doing installations or, field work, right?

But they need that experience because oftentimes it's. You know, it will take you five hours to do a job that if you had the experience, you knew what to do, it would take five minutes. Right? And so how do we effectively pass that knowledge? And I think the attitude used to be, [00:29:00] and I, this may be different in your profession or in the forging industry, but in controls anyway, was kind of keep what, you know, to yourself because that's what makes you valuable.

That's what you employed. And so it was very difficult as a younger person to, Necessarily get all that knowledge because it was kind of considered a rivalry situation. And I know that's not the same across every company. I just I hear that enough that it seems to be a common theme. Do you find that in the forging industry, knowledge sharing is something that's, you know, built into the culture or is that a challenge that you guys see at all?

I think it's very individualistic. So the reason I say that is I think that some people are naturally wired to teach and mentor and share and support that next generation. But I don't think everybody is wired that way and that's okay. Right? So then you have to. Create the structures and the institutional, you know, knowledge sharing and knowledge transfer to make sure that those things are happening.

 We're also really lucky in that the forging industry association does a lot [00:30:00] of facilitation of that via their workshops and webinars and events. So they'll bring in the seasoned veterans who may or may not be retired at that point to share their knowledge and experience with. The next generations who are trying to capture as much of that as they can.

And then internally, we're really lucky in that. My brother is like an encyclopedia, but he's that way partly because he asks everybody so many questions and then somehow stores all of that information in his brain so that he can recall. Oh, you know, I read about that problem or I heard about that problem and this is how that person went about solving it.

Why don't we try that? And then he Pulls all of these old, like, textbooks and manuals and, you know, workshop pages out of nowhere. I don't know where he keeps all of these things, but they're like, tattered, yellowed, just. Reference materials, I'm like, where did this come from? How did you run across this? He was all this old timer, gave [00:31:00] it to me and I just filed it away.

And then I remembered the title and it applies to the situation. Great. Happy you're on our team. Yeah, this is why I think I is not going to replacing any of you or us at this point. Maybe. Sometime in the future, and I can't say how accelerated that curve is. Right. But doesn't have access to that tattered yellow manual.

Right? It does have access to tomes of all kinds of text. Right, but I know that in our industry, we very much struggled with getting those things digitized. There's probably not a language model out there that can touch that manual. And make those connections. I don't think so. I used to have a, I would like to meet your brother 1 day because.

My husband's friends when I first met my husband, they nicknamed me Nickipedia because I somehow always seem to have a random fact available or something that I learned from someone, no matter what topic came up. And I don't think that I've applied it as, as, [00:32:00] uh. That in such a valuable way that your brother has.

 But I always relate to people that kind of have that knack of just somehow. Sometimes when I want to recall something, I have no idea where it is or where to get it. But at the time where somebody asks or whatever, I'm like, Oh, actually. I know a thing or I heard about that thing or somebody did, which is part of why I think I enjoy so much doing some stuff like this, right?

Because probably, you know, 3 months from now, somebody will ask me about forging and I'll be like, oh, Chelsea told me blah, blah, blah. You never know. How did you go about your automation journey with the new cell? I know you said that your brother architected a lot of that. Do you guys build all of that in house?

Or did you have a systems integration partner? Or how did you guys go about figuring out how the heck to do that? So we used an integrator who is experienced in hot forging automation because it is a different animal, right? You have to do some, things about heat protection and, grippers and how the [00:33:00] grippers are going to interface with the tooling and how all of that.

Ties together, and then, of course, the safety modifications, right? But. It was Dane, my brother, who was really tying the integrator in with the equipment manufacturer and making sure that we were paying attention to how all of that was going to work with our tooling specific to the types of part geometries that are.

Most in our wheelhouse. Okay. It's hard to predict, right? Because you don't know which quotes you're going to win. But for the most part, we forge asymmetrical forging up to about 20 pounds. So, we were really designing that cell to work with that type of envelope. And then we had constraints right about building footprint and we needed certain material handling.

I always based on the forklifts that we already had. So he was thinking about. All of these variables, on top of making sure that anytime that we could create redundancy between types of equipment. [00:34:00] Existing and new, he was also doing that. So we run induction units to heat our steel. So, he made sure that the coils that we use on the new line are interchangeable with the ones that we use in the hammer shop, which is the 5 old lines.

So, yes, I mean, he's. A genius when it comes to those types of things, so he was thinking 10 steps ahead to make sure that we had sort of that safety net available, but also that it was giving us some more flexibility when it came to just equipment and coil changes and all of that. So, the integrator was really providing the nitty gritty, like, automation expertise, but I honestly don't know how this would have played out if.

Dane had not been managing that project from start to finish because he had that bird's eye view, but also kept drilling down to, you know, ground level at every step of the way to make sure that we weren't backtracking to fix mistakes that we had overlooked. So. It was just [00:35:00] extremely impressive how he was making sure that he was.

Not just project managing, but literally managing the implementation, the integration on a holistic scale to make sure that it was going to work in that new cell, but also was not going to impede. Anything that was existing in our operation. Yeah, because the integrator or the OEM is never going to know your business like you do, right?

I've seen projects fail because not to say it was the customer's fault. It was just a lack of holistic thinking or view, or there was nobody involved in the project. That was able to pinpoint some really big red flags that unfortunately, later down the line, when it finally came to that point, somebody was like, wait.

This doesn't make sense, or this doesn't work, or this is not how we do, or I've also seen where, like, during the scoping phase. Some of the people involved were third parties and that wasn't made clear, right? They're not in house and, you know, there's just so many. It is [00:36:00] complex, right? Managing a project like this. It's a lot and it's a lot of investment from your side time money. I mean, huge and it's very unfortunate when you kind of see that it's not necessarily anybody's fault on the vendor side. But just. If somebody doesn't really know their operation well enough to know what to ask for, I mean, most good and we'll come walk the line or look at the process and everything, but there's still always something that they won't know that.

Somebody that knows your business and has run your business. Um, would know what kind of background does your brother have to really, like, is he in any way related to engineering or automation or did he just have a knack for this? He looks at the process. So, his education is all business. Okay, but he just his brain is wired to look at all of that.

So systems integration, automation, engineering for sure. And, I mean, manufacturing in general, and I think part of that [00:37:00] is just because we both grew up in the business, but obviously, my strengths are different than his, right? So it can't just be exposure. It's his wiring and his brain chemistry, for lack of a better term, but 

 he can do so many things and he's mechanically inclined to begin with, but he's also creative so that when you meld those 2 things together, I mean, he comes up with some off the wall ideas and they end up working very cool. Yeah, my sister and I both grew up, working with my dad and his business also, and I gravitated towards the front of the house sales marketing, you know, I answered the phone.

I did some accounting too. I hated it, but I did it. And whereas my sister very much. Uh, gravitated towards the back. She would rather saw her in the, you know, in the back quietly and never talked to anyone. And those are just absolutely personality differences, brain chemistry, whatever that is, right?

We had the exact same, you know, level opportunity and involvement and everything, but we're different people. [00:38:00] So it's also really interesting. I mean, your answer earlier about the whole knowledge sharing, you're absolutely right. And I kind of hadn't thought about it that way, that really, some people are just wired to be teachers or to share what they do.

And then others, it's not a lack of wanting to, but maybe just their personality doesn't lend them to be that type of person that outwardly. Teaches others or, you know, puts what they do out there. I've learned also, I used, entrepreneurial, right? I think most people that kind of do something.

On their own, or go into leadership have, um, there's some sort of drive and for the longest, my, my mother in law is also this way and we would talk to each other and she's always like, oh, so and so, she just started a business doing that. And after a while, I had to tell her, you know, what. I realize now like so and so and a lot of people are really not built for starting a business, and they feel fulfilled and happy doing it for a living.

Not taking the risk or, managing other people or, you know, it's kind of like, you have [00:39:00] to be ready to jump off a cliff when you want to start a business and do that thing. And a lot of people are comfortable working and they want to be filled in their work, but they don't want to be the boss.

And honestly, that's also a good thing because nobody can be the boss if there isn't anybody to work and do the jobs that you lay out and have that vision. How big is your company now? And do you have, you know, big growth plans? We do, so we employ currently about 91 individuals. Last year, we didn't work this year.

So, last year was a big year, just because of all the chaos with the supply chain this year, we'll do probably 32Million in sales and we do have big long term growth plan. So we are looking at hitting about 40Million in the next couple of years, adding that 2nd automated press line. So it'll be identical redundant backup to the existing 1.

Yeah, and then looking at how we're going to convert the older hammer [00:40:00] technology in the hammer shop to make sure that we're keeping up with all of the competitive advancements that are available to us. So that we're around for the next couple of generations. And I think, you know, it's interesting what you said about people having different personalities and different wiring and being better suited and being in a family business is it can be a different animal.

Right? But there's something really comforting about taking that risk and having that entrepreneurial spirit, but. It not being, you know, by myself, right? So my dad did that for a really long time. Obviously, he had my mom, but being in the business with my brother and then having our complimentary skill sets where we can bounce ideas.

We can disagree because we have different perspectives and then figure out the best course of action to move that forward is only going to strengthen our path and decisions to get us towards our ultimate vision and that continuous growth that we have. Um, our site set on, you know, so it's this constant [00:41:00] momentum that we're looking to uphold, even in the face of, you know, the manpower shortages, the economic uncertainty, all of the supply chain chaos that happened over the last couple of years, cobit that came out of nowhere, but it's, it's those situations that really force you to think outside of the box and find that next solution.

And for us, it was an automated cell. You know, who knows what the next thing will be. Right. So was that something that was in the works planning wise long before covid? And was there a catalyst to that realization that, oh, we should automate next that that should be our next step. So, we pivot really well, and really quickly as a company.

And the planning phase for that whole thing was. Ridiculously short wow, I. It was unreal and looking back, my personality is far more risk averse than my dad and my brother. And I'm like, how was I so cool and [00:42:00] collected during all of this? Um, but it was probably, I don't know, a couple months from, hey, maybe we should do this to let's cut the purchase order for the equipment.

Wow, and then we actually built and commissioned that entire thing. So building and sell in a year in the middle of the supply chain craziness. Yeah, yeah, I mean, once we have our sights set on something, get out of our way, or we'll run you over. That's impressive and now, obviously, a lot of manufacturers are on either cutting back or unsure, right?

There's a lot of turbulence and uncertainty in the economy. Interest rates are extremely high. And so what I've seen is a lot of projects like this have kind of been put on hold. How do you feel about the economic uncertainty in relation to continuing to invest in automation? Because my view, and again, this may be, you know, I, cause I'm in a little bubble and we want to automate everything all the time.

 [00:43:00] But we really see it from this perspective long term if you don't automate and grow your capacity and get. Not just remain competitive, but be innovative. There is such a lag time to this kind of investment that if you wait until things are better, then you're probably already going to be behind.

What are your thoughts on that? And is the economic uncertainty right now, you know, really affecting the timeline for your second line? Or is that something that you guys are going to forge ahead, no matter what, you know, economies or economists are predicting based on just what you know about your business?

Was that a forging fun? That was an unintended forging pun. Um, I share your sentiments. I, for me, it's a balance between making sure that we are being conservative enough during the uncertainty to protect the existing investment, including our team members, but also finding that balance right of when is the time right or right enough, because it's never going to feel like the right time [00:44:00] to continue to make that strategic investment so that.

When there is an inevitable downturn, you come out the other side ready to go strong and able to meet all of the customer needs and demand without trying to scramble to make sure that you have the capacity available to, offer to any opportunity that might come knocking. Right? The last thing that I want to do is feel like I'm caught flat footed and then trying to catch up to make sure that we're Best position to capitalize on any opportunity that might come our way.

So I don't have a definitive answer on a timeline. It's really just balancing, you know, how much risk are we comfortable with taking into account that? It's not just us. It's all 90 of our team members. Yeah. And then how do we set ourselves up for success? To make sure that we can capitalize on anything that might fall on our lap.

Absolutely. Well, I would love to see your forging operation sometime. But at the [00:45:00] same time, like, maybe in the meantime, um. While Allie and I try to find a way to get over there to see it we would love to share some videos of your automation line if you guys are open to that, on our channel. I feel like just too much of this stuff is kind of secretive to the outside world.

How we make, I mean, you. We all love, I don't know, everybody that I know that has seen the show How It's Made loves seeing it, but that's a small fraction. And oftentimes it's more legacy systems, right? Like something that we all know from childhood, this is how it's made. And I understand, you know, in the manufacturing industry, a lot of it's kind of, they consider it a trade secret.

But if you guys are willing to share, Any part of your automation, you know, systems journey, how that works visually. We would love to see it and share it with our audience. Yeah, absolutely. We actually held our 1st ever forging family day a couple of weeks ago, and it was the coolest thing to [00:46:00] witness our team members, family and friends come through and watch everything that we do, whether it was the automated line or the manual process, because it.

Finally clicked and you can see the light bulb go off and finally, you know, the hammer man, one of the guys was like, my girlfriend finally understands what I'm talking about and what I do every day, because until you see it, you can't wrap your head around it. Right. But it's, you know, the ground is shaking, sparks are flying and you're literally manipulating metal.

It's really cool. Yeah. So I can imagine that your comment before that some people come into supporting jobs. When they see it, they're like, I want to do that, but I bet it's really hard on paper to attract a candidate to that job without them seeing what it really is. Because it is 1 of those things that you feel kind of when you're in that position, I struggle with this as well, like, even industrial automation, factory automation.

You go to, you know, any block party and people ask you what you do and their eyes glaze [00:47:00]over as soon as you, you know, I used to say, Oh, I work with robots because it's just easier than to try to explain what automation is when it's not a robot. Which is why I think, unfortunately, most of America has the misconception that we all lost our jobs to robots already in factories.

And that just makes me laugh because the number of robots in factories is, in fact, very, very small. Yes. But yeah, I would love for everybody to be able to, at a young age, you know, just see and feel a lot of these professions that I guess in the past were kind of more so passed down, you know, through families or people that knew.

Because in popular culture, you don't hear about these like ever man. Just sounds like an awesome job. If I told my 3 year old son right now, like that, he could, I don't know, be a hammer man. A, he would have no idea what it means other than thinking that he was like, hammering nails, but still, I can only imagine for the right personality for the right person getting a taste of that could spark a career that And I'm [00:48:00] sure there's plenty of people needed still with the skill, no matter the amount of automation that we throw at this thing.

Right? We still need people that actually know how it works. Yeah, there are still. I mean, the reality of automation is there are still gaps that you can't automate everything. Right, right. It either doesn't make business sense or the process is too complex or too nuanced. Right? And automation just hasn't gotten to that point yet where it financially makes sense.

So it's not what everybody thinks it is. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on and telling us a little bit about this. You really also just piqued my curiosity. Now, I really want to know everything about forging because I didn't know much about it at all. And you definitely. Have opened my eyes, I would love to, yeah, learn more about it.

Uh, let our audience learn along with me. We'll hopefully see some more content from you and, Trenton forging company in the future. So I'll ask my last question. Which is where can people get in touch with you or follow you and your [00:49:00] journey if you'd like to, you know, share with the world going forward and what should they expect to see from you in the near future?

Yeah. And so we upload new videos and blog posts to our website pretty regularly. It's Trenton forging dot com. We are. Sort of active on LinkedIn, but our website is really the best place to find us. And then we're very involved in the forging industry association as well. And they are on multiple social media channels.

Well, thank you so much for your time, Chelsea. It was great to meet you. I hope to see you around more often, whether it's at events or on LinkedIn or and hopefully 1 of these days, I'll have some time to make it out to 1 of the forging association events because it sounds like a great group. Yeah, hope to see you.

That'd be great. All right. Well, thank you so much. You have a great day. Bye. Thanks. See ya.