Automation Ladies
The podcast where girls talk industrial automation!
We interview people from all walks of life in the Industrial Automation industry. Through a personal narrative/conversational framework we talk about PLCs, SCADA, IIoT, Machine Vision, Industrial Robots, Pneumatics, Control Systems, Process Automation, Factory Automation, Systems Integration, Entrepreneurship, Career Stories, Personal Journeys, Company Culture, and any other interesting and timely topic we want to discuss.
Co-Hosted by Nikki Gonzales and Ali G - find them on LinkedIn.
Automation Ladies
Building a Visionary Business in Automation with Erick Collins
What happens when a young troublemaker with a love for computers and cars finds himself at the forefront of the robotics and machine vision industries? Nikki and Courtney chat with Erick Collins, owner of Rockport Integration and Automation.
Through a significant change in career direction and the influence of pivotal figures, Erick's path was anything but ordinary. Discover how a friend's advice led him from auto mechanics to computer science and ultimately into the captivating world of automation.
Disclaimer: This episode was cut short due to an interrupted upload via Riverside.
Co-Hosts are Alicia Gilpin Director of Engineering at Process and Controls Engineering LLC, Nikki Gonzales Head of Partnerships at Quotebeam, and Courtney Fernandez Robot Master at FAST One Solutions.
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Get in touch at automationladies.io!
Music by Samuel Janes
Audio Editing by Laura Marsilio
Hey guys, thanks for joining us today on another episode of Automation Ladies. I'm Courtney Fernandez with United Robotics Group and today we've got our usual Nikki Gonzalez.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone Nikki from Clicking here. I told Courtney, since she's here and she knows Eric, that she should run the show today, so let's see how it goes. Not that it's her first time or that I should expect anything less than excellent.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, we're really excited to entertain Eric Collins, a longtime friend of mine. Eric, I'll let you introduce yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my name is Eric Collins and my business is Rockport Integration and Automation, and we focus primarily on robotics and machine vision, and I myself have I think I'm coming up on 24 years of experience here with the latter, but also controls, and I could basically build a machine myself from the ground up. That's my experience.
Speaker 2:All right, custom machine builder. And where are you, eric?
Speaker 3:Well, rockport is located in Marietta and I live in Temecula, the little area at the very edge of Riverside County and San Diego County.
Speaker 2:All right, you have nice weather. It looks sunny where you are. So right now, for those of you because you're listening on the audio podcast, eric is pulled over in his car after a meeting customer meeting, I, I think it was, but he's got his lights shades on and the sun is shining and, yeah, I guess san diego fashion, I can imagine it being around between 70 and 80 degrees, right 73 yeah southern california.
Speaker 1:So we usually start the episodes with the same question most of the time, which is how did you get into automation in the first place? Did you wake up one day, and just you know?
Speaker 3:I kind of figured this question would come up. This is this is my second podcast, I think, and I always struggle on what to say because it's such a long story, uh, but I'll try to keep it brief essentially what happened?
Speaker 3:we're good it kind of is like a blend of of a bunch of happenings. When I was young I was a bit of a troublemaker. I was a big troublemaker and my mom had a boyfriend who was a bit of a troublemaker. I was a big troublemaker and my mom had a boyfriend who was a computer science major and he saw potential in me and at 14, he bought me my first computer. Obviously I didn't know I was a bit of a nerd back then, I just figured I was having fun with this computer so I learned computers. That was that.
Speaker 3:In high school I studied auto mechanics. I was top of my class, was supposed to go to auto mechanics school. I had a deal with BMW, was supposed to get a shop. All these promises were made and about a week or two before I started school for auto mechanics, bmw kind of backed off on their deal a little bit and at that moment one of my good friends, tim, was like hey, man, you're good with computers, you should be doing computer stuff, not auto mechanics. He's like you'll make way more money. And I was like okay, good point, sure. So I dropped out of school, canceled my contract and started going to school for computer science, and not even like two semesters.
Speaker 3:One semester in my car blew up on me and I had no ride to school, no ride to work, so I spent my time. My friend worked at Best Buy at the time in Rancho Cucamonga and I would just ride to work with him and go next door to Barnes and Noble and I would just read books on computers and study for certifications like INET plus, network plus, ccna, mcse, inet plus all of those things Studied. Those spent a lot of time at Barnes and Noble. I had no money, so I was just there all day reading books About the time I was about to go take the tests. I just didn't have the money because I had no job. So I was just there all day reading books About the time I was about to go take the tests. I just didn't have the money because I had no job. So things just weren't panning out for me and I was getting frustrated and my friend called me. He worked at Circuit City. You guys probably don't even know what that is anymore. Me too.
Speaker 1:I'm not stuck at Circuit City.
Speaker 2:My husband worked at Best Buy when we met, I think, or no shortly after, but anyway, that was the time that was a big electronics store.
Speaker 3:So my friend at the time was a manager at Circuit City. You know really big deal. And this guy came in and Courtney actually probably knows who this guy is, but I won't say his name for a lot of reasons he came in to Circuit City and he purposely messed up his electronics in his truck to find somebody who could fix it so he could offer them a job. So he did that. He purposely messed up his alarm. My friend fixed it. He's like hey, you're smart, you should come work for me. We do robots and stuff. My friend was like shit, dude, I'm a manager at Circuit City, so I'm going gonna have to pass. It's kind of a big deal. And he's like well, damn man. He's like do you know anybody? He's like you know, this is my friend, eric, he's super smart. And by do I? At this time I didn't know I was smart, right. I had no idea. I just wanted to be a snowboarder and cause trouble. That was my plans in life and so he calls me.
Speaker 3:He's like hey, this guy's offered me a job. I told him about you. He's like I know you need to get a job. I was like what is it? He's like I don't know. It's like manufacturing and robots and stuff. I was like, okay, well, what does it pay? He's like it's 12 bucks an hour. I was like I'm in 12 bucks an hour back.
Speaker 3:Then. You know this is 2000, yeah. So I was like, oh my gosh, so I clean myself up. You know, put on nice clothes. I drive down the yorba linda maybe courtney's doing the math here, who this person is or not, I don't know but drive down the yorba linda. Hand this guy my application and he looks at he's like listen, man, I don't really care about your resume or even how you're dressed, I don't care about any of that. He's like there's a robot downstairs, here's the manual. If you can make that robot, how you're dressed, I don't care about any of that. He's like there's a robot downstairs, here's the manual. If you can make that robot move, you're hired. I was like okay.
Speaker 3:So I grabbed the manual, run downstairs and I'm reading it. And I'm not going to use the term that we used to define how the language was written in this manual. That was a Japanese robot, but it was very bad English. Anyways, I spent about he's like you got till five o'clock, so take your time. About three hours later I had already read the manual, I had wrote a program and I had the robot moving and executing the movements and doing you know stuff. And he came downstairs. He's like you already, you already wrote a program. I was like, yeah, he's like okay, you're hired. So the rest is history. I'm self-taught with everything and that was, kind of by design, the person I worked for. I thought he was testing me at the time, but it turns out he just didn't know and he was hoping I would figure it out and I did.
Speaker 1:I'm in.
Speaker 3:PLC programming I learned how to use SOLIDWORKS no-transcript other choice so moved with my friend's grandmother, worked there for about seven years and I was riding dirt bikes with my friend. He's like hey, this guy, because I was, I showed him a denso robot. This is a long time ago. Hey, this guy, he works for this company I can't say the company name, but they use robots and they're looking to hire a programmer and they pay like $90,000 a year and keep in mind, this is like 2005. And I was like what People get paid $90,000 a year to program robots? I'm making $15 an hour. So he's like I'll set you up an interview.
Speaker 3:So he sets up the interview and this company that I went interviewed with, courtney knows, knows 100%. She knows because she's worked with this company and this company is, was the biggest or is the biggest automation house in Southern California by far. So I went interviewed with this guy with when the business was not that big and he's like you missed the robot programming job. I've already filled that, he's like, but I need a controls guy and that's $50,000 a year. I was like that's more than $15 an hour. So he tried to get me to sign a contract right there on the spot and I was really nervous because I was living in San Dimas, working in Yerba Linda, and this guy is out in Simi Valley, thousand Oaks. You know way out there and I'm sure Courtney knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:I know exactly what you're talking about now. I made that drive a few times.
Speaker 3:Yeah so, and this guy that was offering the job is a great guy, I mean obviously a successful guy. But I was like I can't sign this right now, man. He's like I don't want you to go back and take my offer to your boss and, just you know, have him match my offer. I was like that's a good idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I should do this.
Speaker 3:So I declined the offer. I said I'm sorry I can't make that kind of commitment and I'm glad I did. You know, it's one of those things in life where that was a major fork in the road for me and maybe it would have worked out better, maybe not, I don't know. Went back to my boss, told him he offered me, he matched the offer and reduced it a little bit because he's like you don't have to drive, you know, to freaking thousand oaks. I was like okay, so I worked there for a couple more years.
Speaker 3:The relationship between this person and I was not going very well and, um, one of the Cognizant guys, matt Remnick, who's a really dear friend of mine and a huge mentor in my life, and you know I've been working with Matt Remnick since before Matt Remnick. I mean before I would be working with Cognizant since before Matt Remnick even worked at Cognizant. But when Matt got hired we worked together. Anyways, strong bond with this guy. Matt's a great guy. Matt was like dude, you could be doing better. I'm like what do you mean? He's like I can't say anything. He's like because I'm not going to violate this trust I have with your boss, but you could be doing better.
Speaker 3:One day I got into a dispute with my boss and I walked out and had no plans. I'm just, you know, I had a short temper, I was young and dumb, but it worked out. So I called Matt, I was like you said, I can do better, what's better and he's like. I got this company in Temecula. I won't say their name either. You can go work for them. And what's the pay? The pay was great, so left, you know. After I quit that job, left Great, so left, you know.
Speaker 3:After I quit that job, left, started working in Temecula, ended up moving to Temecula, which is where I am now, because I absolutely love the place. It's beautiful, it's small, it's quiet, it was affordable and I worked at this company for a few years but anyways, so continued to build my skill, build my craft, and I started to realize that you know I should be running a business. And I offered these people to run their business. I was like, hey, if you guys want to go hang out in Cabo for the rest of your life and let me run this business, do it. Just pay me. Well, and you know, whatever they declined. So I do love them on a personal level, but maybe on business level we don't see eye to eye.
Speaker 3:But, um, I had, my wife was pregnant and there were some promises made that weren't fulfilled. I fulfilled my end of the bargain. Um, I learned how to do sql databases, I learned how to program plc, alan bradley, and so they gave me a one percent raise and cut my car allowance. And this was about two weeks before I had my baby, two weeks, yeah. So we weren't doing just okay to we're in the red and this is a problem. So I told my wife I was like you're going to think I'm crazy or you already know I'm crazy, but I'm going to quit my job and start my own business. She's like okay, I was like so after my daughter Evie's born, I'm going to go quit. So once the word got around the family and friends, they are like you're fucking crazy.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I don't know if I can cuss in that you won't be the last mark as explicit, although not all of our episodes are, so it's okay we're all. We already earned our advisory.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've already got our little explicit e on it, yeah so everyone in the world thought I was crazy and they're probably right. But I believed in myself. I always have. And I told my wife. I was like hey, we may lose my house, we may lose these cars, we may have to live with your mom and dad, but I promise you I'll make it. I will make it. I promise you, and this is why I love my wife. Um, she never doubted me. She's's like OK, let's do this. And so I did, and through the help of my friends Matt Remnick and Greg Wolf at Sobel, they helped me get my first business off the ground. And you know there's a lot more stories to that too, but I don't, you know, we can always move past it. But I just wanted to mention their names because they were really helpful in my career and I always like to give them credit where I can and shout them out, because Greg Wolf and Matt Remnick are just really good people.
Speaker 1:Especially in the machine vision community. You know, I feel like, at least in Southern California, all of us that do integrations with machine vision know those two names, you know especially if you've done Cognix integrations, like you definitely know Matt Remnick and you definitely know Greg Wolf.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and you know the goal is it's already happening. But my name should be synonymous with those names, because I've been working with Cogniz longer than they have. I've been programming Cogniz cameras before they were even around. Now that's not to say they're not talented, because Greg Wolf is extremely talented, but yeah, so that's what I'm known for is machine vision and robotics, specifically machine vision, but that's all I got in the automation. It was just kind of like a lot of things happen in my life and it's you know. I don't know if people believe in destiny, but I think at this point I do, after dealing with that, going through what I've gone through and succeeding.
Speaker 2:So what does that success look like for you today? Because I know you mentioned before we started recording that you're really busy. You have a lot of projects and that's a good problem to have. Yeah, you know, growth can be hard just as much as it is rewarding. Can you talk a little bit about that story of growth between when you started and now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's a great question, because this is my second business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was hoping you would talk about the first one a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my first business is my first business. I was young, my ego was way bigger than it is already and I was out there running and gunning. I thought I was unstoppable and I was, for the most, unstoppable. I believe in my technical expertise and growth is the perfect word for this conversation because I grew too fast, I did too much, I went too fast and I didn't learn hard, valuable lessons. I just relied on my ability to adapt and overcome and it ended up costing me my business.
Speaker 3:I didn't ever despite what the rumors may be or may have been passed around by crappy people I never banked up to that business and I don't know. I don't owe anybody money and every employee that walked in for my business loves me and always says good things about me. In fact, I rehired one of them. But it's a lesson in owning a business is growth and learning how to manage that and not being blinded by success and the perceived success that you're having, and keep staying grounded, staying focused and having a plan is like the most important thing. To be successful and successful.
Speaker 3:Being successful doesn't mean growth. It means sustainability, right, it means being able to weather storms, and I think the most important lesson that I learned is that I need to be Eric and Rockport needs to be Rockport, and they're not the same thing. They're separate entities and they're not tied together, other than I own the business and my name's on all the checks. I try to treat my business as a business and not as my personal toy that I can do whatever I want with, and that's if there's anybody out there starting a business or growing a business. I hope you hear those words because they're so important.
Speaker 2:I think that we know people out there too that have had that same other people that you know had a really good year. They grew really, really, really fast. And then you know something happens. Employees didn't you know is right. It's a lot of things, the main things, that once you start to scale, if you haven't done it in a very deliberate process way, that can crumble at any different time, right. So deliberate.
Speaker 3:Deliberate, that's a great word. It needs to be deliberate. You need to have contracts, you need to have things in writing, you need to have a scope, you need to have milestones, you need to have everything on paper. I tell my employees that you can. They'll tell you this right now. No meeting is off the record. No conversation is off the record. No email is off the record. It's all on the record. Everything is documented, everything is archived, everything is written down and it's just for our protection and for our own ability to keep track of our projects, stay on top of them and be effective and not just kind of dangling with the wind like I was. You know like I'll figure it out and I do figure it out. But you know what? Figuring it out is not enough. It needs to be deliberate. Like you said, it needs to be planned and it needs to be executed without fail, and sometimes people don't get that.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say it's easy to ride the waves of like. You know, you have this network in California that all talks to each other. So you do good work for somebody and they all talk to each other, and this influx of work comes in and it's really easy to kind of start feeling like, hey, I'm just going to ride this wave, as opposed to I'm going to build a pyramid with a big solid base and actually build this pyramid.
Speaker 1:I'm just like, oh, the pieces are falling and they happen to be building a shape. Yay, you know.
Speaker 3:It's like you're running around with a basket trying to catch all the apples. You know You've got to say no. It's like playing Tetris on purpose.
Speaker 1:I'm liking it to playing Tetris on purpose and you start clearing rows and stuff and you have a purpose to it, versus now you have all this shape that's just fallen out of control and you've got these holes that you can't clear out now, and now you're just kind of stuck with having let gravity do all the work.
Speaker 3:And it's so important in integration and machine building, because we don't have widgets, we're not selling widgets, we can't project, we can't make plans. All we can do is budget, budget, budget and charge the right amount. And that's another thing too. Is important for business is knowing your value and knowing your worth in your business and not letting people, and specifically customers, talk out of your worth because those business, and not letting people, and specifically customers, talk out of your worth because those aren't people that you want to work with anyways, you know.
Speaker 2:Right? When did you, when and how did you learn that lesson, and do you have any suggestions or resources for other people that may be trying to figure out how the heck do they actually properly know their worth?
Speaker 3:Well, this is going to sound horribly egotistical. I don't read books, I don't watch YouTube videos. I don't like motivational quotes. I don't like any of that. I think it's all nonsense. It's just people marketing stuff to you to cater to your heartstrings, like work hard, and they show a picture of a lion and they saw a guy getting off a jet. It's like it's all bullshit.
Speaker 3:The reality is is you have to pay attention to the lessons that are being taught to you, and you may not realize it's a lesson, but it's important to be aware of what's happening in your life and how things are transpiring. I learned these lessons the hard way. I lost the business, I got violated by a customer for a lot of money and I had attorneys that were like you have a case, you could win, but it'll take three years, it'll take hundreds of thousands of dollars and in the end they have more money than you do and you lose. So those are mistakes that I learned the hard way and it hurt me for a long time. It really did. It really hurt me internally as a person, as a business owner. You know I doubted myself for a long time, but you know there's people that take those experiences and blame it on someone else. Or there's people like me that say I could blame the customer all day long, but I didn't get things in writing. I trusted people's word, I trusted someone's handshake and I let people promise me things. If they give them discounts now and things like that, and I mean the only way I could say is, if you have a business that's growing, you need to find other individuals who are growing a business.
Speaker 3:Or for people like me, I have friends that are in a higher position than I am, that are further along in life than I am. I have people that are not as far along in life as I am, and I have these people as a counsel of my life that I talk to, because sometimes the person that's below me not that in a bad way, but that's not where I'm at now they may have a perspective that I wasn't thinking of, and the people that have been there already have this perspective of like Eric, don't make that mistake. So I think it's important to to put down the books and turn off YouTube and talk to some people that you know are successful. If you don't have anybody, man, contact me. You know I don't care. There's enough meat on the bone for all of us to eat. There's enough business out there for all of us to be successful. There's no need to hoard information. There's no need for us not to stick together and work together.
Speaker 2:So anybody that owned a business that knows me knows I'm very open and very willing to help out, give advice and help out wherever I can within reason, and I think and I may be wrong about this, but I think most people that genuinely have built a business and they've usually stumbled along the way, whether it's in that business or with prior businesses. Like most successful entrepreneurs, it's not their first go around. That is the big success.
Speaker 2:Because you can't learn everything from a book or you can't follow somebody else's blueprint and immediately be a wild success. Like I hate those. Oh, I figured out the system and now I'm going to teach it to you, so you can, you know, take all the shortcuts and become a millionaire overnight, or even a more reasonable promise, because so much of what happens in business that succeeds is a combination of timing, luck, your relationships your skills your ability to execute things, and sometimes there's things out of your control.
Speaker 2:But like saying someone oh, you figured out the magic formula and as long as you follow my system, you'll be successful. I am always like bullshit those people.
Speaker 3:Those people are the people that are selling you snake oil, and if you really, if you're a smart business person, you should be able to look at the other side of the fence and say, if this guy was successful, he wouldn't need to do this. He wouldn't need he or she sorry, they wouldn't need to do this, they wouldn't need to sell this pamphlet of success, because if that was the case, this pamphlet would have been circulated around and people would be following it and everyone would be successful. The reality is, owning a business is not easy. There's a high chance of failure, it's a high risk proposition and if you're not borderline insane, you're probably not cut out to own a business.
Speaker 2:Well said, well said. I'm going to make this a shameless plug for OTScapeCon. I don't know why we call it a conference, right, colin? But it's meant to be part training. I mean mostly networking also. But the idea is to have most topics that are in, you know, under that OT SCADA, you know, machine building type of umbrella, have a little bit of practical information and theoretical information about each topic, inputs from various different people that actually work in these fields, but then most, I think, most importantly, the ability to get to know and network with and follow up with those people, both the ones that are teaching those particular subjects and then the other people that are there to learn. Yep, and at first I was like, okay, how are you gonna? How are you gonna cover 23 topics with only 30 minutes on each topic and anybody get any value out of it?
Speaker 2:uh, you can do a training on any one of these topics and you're still only scratching the surface. But then the reason we thought of this. So we, ali and I, both went to a OT network training at Trace Route in Dallas, taught by Josh Varghese, who is, just, you know, a practicing subject matter expert in that area. It's what he works on and it was probably one of the best industry events I've ever been to. It was about 40 people. It was a very specific topic that we were getting, you know, kind of a deep dive training on for the two days.
Speaker 2:But, like for me, I don't need to know all that much about industrial networking, I want to know enough to be able to point people in the right direction, to know when things are fishy, to know, you know, like that's the reason I wanted to go and learn that. But then the big value for me was I got to meet 40 other people in that room that touched that technology area for some reason and want to know more about it, and that's both systems integrators there were controls engineers from you know end users there. There were people from the manufacturers that are working on those product lines and being able to be in the room with those people, make those connections, and it's not, you know, two, three thousand people at a conference where, yeah, you like, scan your badge a hundred times and then just get spammed by oh my gosh people trying to like around with it like flip the other way, like please don't scan my code.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want, and so just now, even as we're like just the speakers in this session, we've been talking One of the topics right 30 minutes. Every single one of the speakers has different experiences with that topic. What were we talking about earlier in the chat? Courtney, virtual machines or remote access, and you've got like five different integrators. They're like, oh yeah, I like to use this, or oh, I use that, and this is how we do it.
Speaker 3:Here's the way I do it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's essentially kind of what we want to try to do. Is everybody that attends that should be able to plug into kind of what you have in a way, eric, with your little network there in Southern California. It's just sometimes all you need is to know somebody to call to ask the question, to get some advice or to collaborate on the project or pass on the business or whatever that is. Would you say that that's played a big you know role in your success or do you think that without you know those people around you as a network, you probably would have still made it right? You're that type of person.
Speaker 3:You're being stopped by that, but yeah, I think everyone's different and I think everything you said has like the utmost of value. I mean, it's so important you know how many of my competitors I'm friends with and talk to you know like there's just no need to be hostile but my growth, my path, was just different from everybody's, unfortunately, and maybe fortunately, I don't know. I don't want to say too much because I have to disparage people to say some of these things and I don't like to do that, but I had to fight really hard to get where I'm at.
Speaker 3:Really really, really hard. A lot of adversity, A lot of deceit, a lot of lies. I always tell people my career, the reason why I'm so good at what I do, is because I worked with all the wrong people and learned how to do things all the wrong way. My whole career was just working with the wrong people and doing things the wrong way, and me starting my business was my way of saying I think that's all shady, I think that's wrong, this is the way I want to do it. And so to your point.
Speaker 3:I spend a lot of time now meeting with my competitors, talking with my competitors, being friends with my competitors, because we all know, may the best person win, may the best business win. You know what I mean. There's a lot of business out there and you know we'll ask each other hey, do you know someone, do you know anybody that's looking for a job? Or hey, maybe we can collaborate on this project. You know things of that nature. I don't think there's a need to be hostile or not talk, and I think networking especially like when you have a similar business in another state like that's really helpful, because now you have all, like the gloves are off, you feel comfortable, you can speak candidly because you know that there is no direct competition. There's no, you know, possibility of going up against each other. And now you can share some really important advice to help grow each other's business. Show where we've learned things, show where they've learned things. And I'm in the process of expanding my business to another state.
Speaker 3:Texas was the original thought. I may be changing that, I don't know. There's just a lot of things. Right now my business is growing really fast, like I said, and instead of me, just like I said, running around the basket and trying to catch all the apples, I took a step back and let the apples fall and I'll find the right one. So the original plan was Texas and I networked with a lot of people in Texas. I flew out there, met with a lot of people you are, you know, olympus Controls and some other people but I think that in talking to these people, I realized maybe Texas is not the move for me, you know, and that was through networking and talking to people in my industry and like-minded individuals. So, yeah, I think to answer your question in the longest way possible, like I just did, yeah, I think it's important. I think it's important to talk to people. It really, is it really?
Speaker 2:is yeah, and overthinking and overstudying sometimes. I mean, some people are like that they don't want to do anything until you're fully prepared. I would say this type of world too, like there isn't really much that you can do to be fully prepared no, that's impossible.
Speaker 3:It's literally impossible. I, I tell people all the time, like I tell my employees and I tell my customers and I tell people that want to invest in my business I'm like I one don't ever call me a startup, I'll lose my effing mind if you call me a startup I have nobody's money. This is all my money. I have no debt, um, but anyways, if you call me a startup, I have nobody's money. This is all my money.
Speaker 1:I have no debt.
Speaker 3:But anyways, if you could just try and adapt, that's like the best you can do Other than that, like if I try and take someone's money or I make some deal or I do something. I'm a human being that operates on honesty as much as I can and I will quite literally lose sleep much as I can. And I will quite literally lose sleep if I feel like there's a potential for someone losing out on the investment in me or my business, or if there's a potential that I sell this to a customer and it becomes a heartache for them or a pain. I won't be able to sleep at night and that's like the reality of owning a business.
Speaker 3:If you care because some people don't care. That's like the reality of owning a business. If you care because some people don't care is the stress is never ending. And the way I equate it is I tell people you don't know what love is until you have a kid and you don't know what stress is until you own a business. You just don't know. They're not the same thing, they're just it's another level.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget Alicia basically saying that, like the way she saw things you know, when things started growing for her and she started bringing on employees is now she's seeing all those employees, babies, and she's like this is how many babies I have to feed now, you know that's like.
Speaker 2:That's where my mind goes as well.
Speaker 1:If I'm bringing on people, there's like mouths that we have to feed. We have to succeed at this. Yeah, I've got five families to help you know and how many babies total is that you know?
Speaker 3:you know, and it's something that, if you're not unless you're like a psychopath, like that's something that I live with every day. Every time I see my bank account go down even a little bit, I'm like am I doing the right thing? Am I spending my money in the right places? Am I budgeting properly? Am I deceiving these people? Am I like you? All these things race through your head constantly and you just got to learn One. You got to learn to one. Like again stick to the plan, make a plan, stick to the plan, make a budget, stick to the budget, make a decision, stick to the decision. Because if you, if you doubt yourself too much, it's a paralysis by analysis, like you said, and you know you can't plan for this, you just can't. You can set a goal, and I hope it's not a monthly goal. You better set a five-year goal, you better set a two-year goal and you better be prepared for a roller coaster in between. You know no-transcript.
Speaker 2:It means you redefine the relationship. Have you learned anything? Or uh, how deep, oh, uh-oh I think, see if he manages to find his way back in.
Speaker 2:We just lost Eric. Well, let me point this question at you, courtney yeah, since we're still recording and let's see if Eric comes back. Is this something? Do you have any insight?
Speaker 2:Like you've been in years of doing business as yourself, working with other small businesses, working at large companies how do you figure out who you can trust and can you ever Do you learn to have a sixth sense about these things? Do you learn that there's certain things that you actually try to make a point, to verify as a process, or is it just you have to feel people out? You know, how do you, as you start to realize that you are not an island, right? Um, select people that you think you can trust? And I'll point back to the earlier example of the lawsuit type situation. You know, customer doesn't pay. Yeah, you can take them to court. You can be right all day long and it'll still cost you way more than you can afford. And so, you know, go taking somebody to court isn't an option for most people, small businesses especially, and I don't think many of us don't understand how cost prohibitive it is to have the courts you know, settle our disputes. Oftentimes it has to come down to trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's actually kind of the hard thing, I think as a small business, or that I didn't realize. As a small business is like say you put you know net 15 in your estimate.
Speaker 1:And then now suddenly they've got you on net 60 and you can't, yeah, yeah, like you're stuck saying, hey, I need you to pay me, but you, you're kind of powerless to do anything. As a small company against a big company, you could sit there and say you said 15 days and that's basically all you can do. But aside from having actually like been burnt by people in the past and knowing, like, what that feels like or what's coming, and, like you said, that sixth sense of hey, I've been burnt like this before I kind of feel like it's coming again.
